Fetuses do not have rights. They’re not sentient, they’re not conscious, they’re not self aware. Even if they did have rights, nothing would give them the right to use another person’s body without that person’s permission. Actual born human beings don’t even have that right.
That’s because of this great thing called “bodily autonomy.” Bodily autonomy is basically the right to your own body, to decide who/what uses it, for what, and for how long. It’s why you can’t be forced to donate blood or organs, etc., even if you’re dead.
Fetuses do not have this.
Pregnant people do.
So if a pregnant person does not want a fetus using their body, guess what? The fetus can’t use their body.
Even if the fetus had all these rights as well (they don’t) it wouldn’t matter. Because it’s the fetus using the pregnant person and the pregnant person has the right to deny the fetus that use. It’s the pregnant person’s bodily autonomy that matters.
Don’t give a pregnant person less rights than a corpse.
They made their choice when they chose to become pregnant. The child deserves to live.
I don’t think most people seeking elective abortion chose to become pregnant.
In fact, I’m not sure anyone can actively choose to become pregnant.
Sex = pregnancy. Don’t have sex and you won’t get pregnant.
You can get pregnant even if you don’t have sex, you can have sex and not get pregnant. You can get pregnant without deciding to have sex. Deciding to have sex does not mean you decided to get pregnant.
Yes, the one adult gave permission to the other adult to have sex with them.
That would also constitute permission from the mother to the child. assuming for just a moment that OP isn’t a complete idiot with her “body autonomy” argument
Consent to one thing is not consent to another, and consent is not transferable from person to person. Consent must also be continuous and given freely. Even if you believe consent to sex is consent to pregnancy, the pregnant person could still revoke their consent, even if they had sex wanting to get pregnant. Unless you think consent cannot be revoked?
I think that grown adults know what causes children and that just because it’s inconvenient doesn’t mean that they get to change their mind . If you want to play, be prepared to pay
First, not only adults get pregnant. Plus, sexual education is inconsistent and can be lacking depending on the place. There are people that don’t even know condoms (or any other method of birth control) are not 100% effective, let alone that having protected sex could result in having a child. I believe there should be better access to affordable (free) and reliable methods of birth control, as well as better and more comprehensive sex ed courses that cover, among other things, all choices available regarding sexual intercourse and reproduction.
Second, reducing a person’s reason for getting an abortion down to an “inconvenience” is trivializing. It doesn’t matter if the person doesn’t want to be “inconvenienced,” they shouldn’t have to be “inconvenienced.”
Third, they do get to change their mind. At whatever time, for whatever reason. The pregnant person must consent to the fetus using their body for the entire pregnancy, otherwise their right to bodily autonomy would be violated.
Finally, this whole “pay” for “playing” thing shows you regard pregnancy and childbirth as punishment for having consensual sex.
No, most of the people who chose abortions see it as a punishment, that’s why they feel like they have a right to kill a baby. I’m not saying there aren’t reasons for it, I am saying that it is far too casual. I’m not saying a mothers life is less important than a baby’s, I’m not saying incest shouldn’t be a reason along with rape. I am saying that most grown adults know what they are doing, the baby didn’t make a choice.
Do you think a person shouldn’t be able to get an abortion if they had consensual sex, and that they should be able to in the case of rape or incest?
I don’t believe in abortion at all, but I understand that some instances are traumatic and abortion should be an option. But no, I do not believe that if you forgot your condom, or it failed snd now your life is inconvenienced that you should be allowed an abortion.
Most of the time we are talking about consenting adults who choose abortion in order to stay out of trouble, or not change their life, and at that point I believe the child has the greater claim
So you do think a person should be able to get an abortion if they were raped?
I do believe that if the woman can’t bring herself to carry the child of her rapist, it should be an option.
considering that rape and incest make up less than 4% of all abortions, yeah I will take a 96% reduction in abortions
Why do you think a person has the right to get an abortion if they were raped?
I don’t think it’s a right for someone who’s been raped to have an abortion I believe it’s a medical necessity.
Ok, then why is it a medical necessity? Why should the person be able to get an abortion?
Because rape is a terrible and traumatic event and sometimes the idea of carrying the child of your rapist is more than even a strong woman can handle. Which is completely different situation than oh my God look I’m pregnant now I have to put off college for a year or so what are my parents going to think Or sure this guy is nice to have had a date but I don’t think I want to have a baby with him so.
Also in the case of rape or incest it’s an event that was forced on the mother, she had no say in it, she didn’t decide for that to happen. Where is the other instances she knew what she was doing she went into it with her eyes open and the idea that hey I’m going to do this and one of the consequences is I could get pregnant.
So a person should be able to get an abortion because it would be traumatizing/difficult for them to be forced to stay pregnant with their rapist’s child?
That doesn’t sound like a medical necessity, that sounds like they have the right to get an abortion because it would be wrong to traumatized them.
No, it sounds like they were raped, against their will, and most times violently so no it’s not traumatic because they have to have a baby. It’s dramatic because they would constantly be reminded of that violent event in their life. That being said I would still encourage even the victims of rape and incest to carry the child to term if she could and give it up for adoption.
(That’s still not an abortion performed out of medical necessity, btw.)
So you would consider it traumatic for a person to be forced to have sex but not traumatic for them to be forced to stay pregnant? Why?
A person should be able to get an abortion because they were raped, why? What’s your entire argument? What gives them the right to abort the fetus? Would their rights be violated if they were forced to carry their rapist’s baby?
Because in most instances them becoming pregnant was their choice. they went into it willingly. They knew the risks of the actions they were taking. Forgive me if your life is inconvenienced at that point because you did something and it didn’t turn out the way you wanted it to.
That’s not an answer to any question I asked. We’re talking about abortions in the case of rape, you’re talking about consensual sex.
You are trying to draw a correlation between the trauma of a rape and the trauma of having a child I’m just pointing out that these two instances came about because of completely different circumstances
It’s almost like they would both be traumatic. Notice how you said “trauma of rape” and “trauma of having a child.” They would both be traumatic, as both would be forced on the person. They didn’t come about because of completely different circumstances, one could occur after the other (you could be forced to have sex and forced to stay pregnant) or they could not (you could have consensual sex and be forced to stay pregnant).
Either way, you have yet to present an argument as to why abortions in the case of rape are acceptable. Do you have one?
You keep throwing around the word ‘inconvenience’. Have you ever been pregnant? Have you ever gone through that? It’s far more than an ‘inconvenience’. The drive thru taking too long and putting me potentially late for work is an ‘inconvenience’. A child making me physically unable to keep down any meal of the day, sucking up my nutrients and making me go through every emotion in the span of three hours and then putting me out of work for two or more months at the rate of 50% of my paycheck IF I’M LUCKY ENOUGH FOR THAT is a HELL of a lot more than an ‘inconvenience’. That would push me and the child I ALREADY HAVE back into poverty and we’d likely lose our house. But yeah, pregnancy is totally an ‘inconvenience?’ Fuck off.
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